Posted by KC Elbows on March 31, 2003 at 10:23:45:
In Reply to: Because cowards have illegally slandered them here. posted by Because that's all they can do on March 31, 2003 at 09:23:31:
'The trouble you are having is because this server is located in a country of people with morals and laws.'
Nice hyperbole.
'Both prohibit and limit the type of slander caused by these cowards.'
More nice hyperbole. Of course, it's a personal choice of the guy who runs these forums, but since he willingly runs another forum that is entirely made up of shout outs between crips and bloods, I'd say he doesn't exactly have a moral leg to stand on.
'For all their talk about fighting wrong and such, the anti-chung moo crowd is getting a lot of official (3rd party) censure.'
This is the only site where censure is happening, and considering who owns this site, I'm really not surprised. To be honest, moos are censured on the yahoo site, and on most of the more mainstream martial arts forums out there, whereas anti-moos are only censured here, whereas the crips and bloods threaten away just a couple forums over.
'the yahoo site has had to change much of it's content due to the laws of this country.'
We didn't have to change a thing, we chose to change our logo because the pic of the flying side kick, which you all bellieve is something other than a flying side kick like good little dupes, did not represent us well as a group. However, we still make use of the pic for discussion purposes, we still possess a pic for such uses, and we are still legally within our rights to do so under the fair use section of the copyright laws. So, other than relegating that pic to a less prominent role, we have changed nothing, which, if you actually researched the garbage you type, you would already know.
'Free speech is not without limits. It stops when you unfairly, unjustly or illegally harass other people with the ability to communicate.'
That's actually not true. Fairness, justice, and the law are three separate issues, and especially in the case of free speech issues, do not always relate to each other. Since it is fair to say that Kim cannot jump from an 11 story building and land 'light as a feather', and it is just to say so, and frnakly, legal to say so, we will keep saying so. On the flip side, because of its patent falseness, it is not fair for Kim to claim so, or just for him to claim so, though up til now, it has been legal to do so ONLY BECAUSE NO ONE HAS CALLED HIM TO TASK FOR HIS CLAIMS. Included in that are claims of a mythical all asia tournament, or claims that Kim's style is 1500 years old, as well as claims that doing these movements will make people into chung doe, a sort of chosen people. Now, we are entirely in the right if we use the public examples of moos who are clearly not morally, spiritually, or physically strong, all necessary elements for someone to be one of the chung doe, to point out that Kim and his martial organization cannot, does not, and will not make such people, despite the claims in their advertisement.
'The same cowards have been slandering this style for years anonymously on the net because it's all they can do and they really don't have a legitimate gripe.'
Incorrect, I've been at it for one year, RD longer, some shorter. It's not the same people, no matter how many times you repeat that lie. There's a few who have been at it a while, but the fact is, it's a growing number, as can be seen by the membership on the yahoo group.
As for a legitimate gripe, substantiate or retract. We've said Kim made up the 11 story fall tale, the all asia championship tale, and more. Because he is the one making outrageous claims, he is the one who must substantiate those claims, not the rest of the world. Historians from korea have yet to support his history, folk cultures from korea have yet to turn up that share in his bizarre folk tales, chinese historians do not agree with the martial history Kim puts forward for their country, and since Kim doesn't have so much as an associates in history, there is no reason to put a shred of faith in his word on it.
He claims to teach something he does not have, his website claims he is 'miraculous' when he is not, meanwhile those who leave are treated like garbage, those who went to jail for Kim have their inequities paraded before the schools in order to say 'it was all their fault', but Kim, who despite them all trying to protect him, he was convicted as well, but no one believes, no, he couldn't be at fault, these people are sooo tied into worship of him that they choose to believe that men they knew were all to blame, and that Kim, who they did not know, was blameless. They have not one shred of evidence to support this, they just continue to tout 'Kim the God' never once considering that those who came before don't want to see his face ever again, especially when it was they, and not Kim, who built the moo empire. Kim was floundering in California when Forrest Troutner built the business model that Kim would follow. That's why it was so important to play up the Minnesota guys- but then, that's a discussion better suited for the yahoo group.
'Yes, the schools had some tax problems years ago dating from decades ago. the rest of the criticism (and a lot of it surrounding the tax case) is innuendo, opinion and outright lies.'
Name three things I've mentioned that are innuendo, opinion, or lies? Kim never jumped 11 stories without a chute, and that's a fact, until he proves otherwise, he cannot claim otherwise. No expert outside of the moo recognizes Kim as a former champion of all asia, and that's a FACT, none of them have ever actuall independently researched it any more than asking Kim about it, and that's a fact, nor does any outside expert recognize there was an all asia tournament EVER. No expert outside the moo recognizes tai chi chung as any part of the tai chi styles EVER, and that's a fact.
Because Kim and his mouthpieces support worshipping him as some sort of man-god, the tax case and his CONVICTION are relevant, because they are so pathetically human. And I'm sorry, but if you believe that he can float down 11 stories, and call that 'miraculous', you're viewing him as a divine figure, whether you like that wording or not. If you ascribe abilities to him past what normal humans can do, and have never seen him do those things, nor has anyone else you know(which is universally the case in the 11 story fall tale- not one member has seen this), then you are, in effect, worshipping him, ascribing to him numinous powers that he does not possess. Since most of the members do not know him, nor have they seen him, they are actually ascribing said abilities to the pictures of him, which, in the classical sense, is idol worship. Yet this 'grandmaster' is a former con, convicted for conspiring to steal money from OUR government that WE have to pay, and the evidence was clear enough that he was convicted despite the fact that a number of others came forward and tried to take the blame for him, most of whom now consider Kim not a god, but a personal devil.
'Sometimes it's entertaining, as some of the things ring true to the doubts that come up in any demanding practice.'
I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with 'demanding practice'. When one learns from a master carpenter, one generally is not worried about whether the master carpenter is going to actually teach you carpentry, whereas Kim does not teach ANYTHING, and hasn't done any form of comprehensive teaching for years.
I've yet to see another school where you were told how to speak, where handling money had to be done a certain way inside and out of school, where people who left were considered no minds, the pa doe, the walking dead, where higher belts had to chuck years worth of training because the grandmaster had allowed them to be taught wrong the first time, which, by the way, has happened twice now in the moo. Those of you in now, prepare- everything you learn now may tomorrow be called nothing, all wrong, the fabricated path, and worse. Your favorite teachers will be blamed for it as well.
'By the way, the aforementioned isn't the only official attention on the anti-chung moo crowd.'
Dude, you didn't mention any 'aforementioned' official attention, you were talking about this site. This site isn't official.
You might want to check with OYDInstructor3 and see if he can remember all the details of his posts on the yahoo group before you even consider legal threats. Also, Daredevil and two others have some posts saved that you can't view anymore, but I can. Might consider what you've done before you drag what others have done out into the light.
*; =qq(