Posted by KC Elbows on April 14, 2003 at 07:54:06:
In Reply to: Type-clik posted by Springer on April 13, 2003 at 16:49:14:
'Is there ever going to be a leader to step forward with the anti-moo group?'
Should there be? I mean, need we copy the authoritarian model so? Technically, there are several that function as leaders from time to time, and we most assuredly have benefitted as people more from this loose organization than from the rigid moo model. Since it's supposed to be about helping people, gift of life for life and all, I believe our way is working just fine.
'If so I think Kevin or Tom should lead it since they were the best.'
Again, modelling our system after one with a 'prime authority' seems against our intentions. We do not want to be the 'children' of one authority, nor do we want to be the 'parent' in said relation. We are all adults, we do not need the world spoon fed to us. I would imagine this holds as true for Tom, Kevin, and many others, as it does for me.
As for 'the best', the best at what? Moo movements? While I'm sure they are skilled individuals, moo movements are just one view of martial arts. As is, we are a group of people with diverse martial experiences, ones that John Kim nor those who trained solely under him have. We are more a martial society, loosely knit, but effective. While I respect those who practiced hard, I have no interest in learning moo movements.
Mind you, the individuals named were very good at organizing, considering that they managed to keep the ship afloat during the post trial years.
'I think that they should start their own schools to proove their better than the certified.'
Better at what? Making money? I assure you, I make more than most of the instructors in the certified schools, and my pay is modest.
Better at martial arts? By what criterion? Fighting ability? Students at my school spar far more often than moo schools do, and are respected by the best fighters in our area. Chi kung? Our very forms are chi kung, we do chi kung at every class, and I have been doing chi kung for quite some time now. Our ability to teach students what we know? Our students, in a very short time, have been sought out by other teachers, and we encourage them to learn from the best, yet they never seem to leave us in the process.
'Any anti-groups out there doing better than the certified schools?'
Seeing as how the school I am a senior at allows students to study with others, and our students never seem to leave, I would say yes, we are more successful than a school that prohibits their students from free choice, and who generally lose students to other schools, especially instructors.
If we are speaking financially, since my school does not charge, it's apples and oranges. Of course, those of us who run the school have no need to charge, so again, I'd say we're the successes. We can pick and choose who we train, instead of being dependent on the resources of those who do not train hard, as the moo schools are.
'Any ex-instructors found a new grandmaster with any pics of skill and ability?'
What good are pics? Or the title, when it is a self proclaimed one? I have a teacher who Kim wouldn't dare look cross wise at. You can chase pictures and promotional material all you want. I follow skill.
'Have any ex's posted their new skills developed from not training under the HN team?'
You make skill development sound like mutations that the HN team passes out. Skill cannot be posted, inferred, or photographed. Skill in martial arts means that when you cross hands, your art lives through you. It comes from testing yourself against the best. It doesn't come from doing a movement on it's own, but from doing the movements against someone who knows how to counter that, and by being able to deal with that. It comes from a unity of forms, not an isolation of them, meaning that all the pictures in the world of someone moving don't make it so that that person can actually use those movements to any degree of skill.
'What are the benifits of not training in a certified school?'
Well, first, your training isn't guided by individuals without substantial experience in the martial arts, which is a benefit in and of itself. Your knowledge is not filtered through one biased viewpoint anymore. You may study under different individuals, you may speak in normal english, you don't have to listen to fairy tales and pretend that they're true, etc.
'Is there going to be a new standard set in the anti-Moo Doe schools for testing and becoming an instructor?'
It's not a new standard anywhere else but in moo land. Instructors who got a form last week shouldn't be teaching it this week, that includes the nationals. People who have not cultivated actual fighting ability don't get rank, or teach. Common sense stuff.
'Will instructors recieve higer level training from the ex's highers?'
'Higher level' is a bunch of malarky. The basics are where the core of all fighting arts lie, the so-called 'higher level' stuff are just fancier combinations of those basics. If I wanted to learn higher level aikido, I'd go to a good aikido school, not a moo. Same with all the core arts in the moo. I have plenty of 'higher level' stuff, and in my experience, those who work on that stuff do okay, but those who know that stuff but ingrain the basics into themselves are superior martial artists.
'Will there be equipment available?'
If you want herb bags, the secret recipe is hardly secret. If it's heavy bags, who doesn't have one? If it's weapons, you might work with a loaner at first, but you should definitely get your own, one that you can grow familiar with.
Since our goal isn't to be a bunch of identical practitioners and schools, and since our styles have different ways of achieving the same goals, the equipment will likewise vary. Conformity is not always a good thing.
'Will there be Weeklong seminars or Weekends with equipment and pressure points?'
First off, I've done pressure point seminars under some of the best, any school can organize these, and if you're only learning pressure points in seminars, your not really learning pressure points. With zero exceptions, every thing we practice involves pressure points.
As for seminars, everyone does them.
'Will there be new weapons and new weapon movements?'
New to who? And what good are weapon movements? Weapon applications, or principles, those are great. Movements? Meaningless. Always chasing the new stuff, never good at the old stuff, that's what 'new movements' are all about. Better to know one cut well than a hundred okay.
'I would like to learn WaeGong could one of the ex's teach me?'
Easy, and stuff the moo doesn't even have.
'I would also like to learn NaeGong and KyongGongSulBope, I only have NaeGong foundation, but I would like to get into real NaeGong training. Can one of the ex's teach me, I'll pay my fair price that I think its worth.'
The moo's internal training is not of interest to me. IMO, there's way better ways to teach it. As for kyung gong sul bope, it's a fairy tale. No one can teach it to you, not what Kim claims it is. There is no fair price, because there is no never never land. Whatever you pay is too much. It shouldn't cost you more than one carrot and one stick.
'KC, why dont you start a school I would like to train in your school.'
I'm a member of a school. I probably won't start another school, as I don't want to involve the supply/demand process in my martial arts, and I don't need the income. Thanks though.
*; =qq(